I've heard people say about those that have HD and suffered an injury as to how the disease progression worsens after the injury.

I was amazed at how immediate this occurs. My phd recently had a public choking episode and I had to do the Heimlich on him and after the food was dislodged, Immediately his leg started to bounce up and down, a movement in his chorea that was never there before. I figured it was just stress immediately after the incident, but to this day - over 4 weeks later the movement has never stopped and is now just a part of his worsening movements. It was like that particular choking incident marked in time a worsening of the disease.
Interesting!

I have a speech pathologist solely focused on choking because my mother died choking on toast. She went out and studied swallowing and HD. I have been through a video fluorosocopy to net effect was radical diet modification. At the end of that appointment at McMaster,the speech pathologist told me that everyone he saw eventually died choking. The biscuit just sat in my mouth, the pudding was okay and there are many problems with swallowing liquid.
I believe there is a cycle to the choking and the longer it has been since you have choked, the less likely you are to choke. My neuro agrees with this. As far as I know nobody has studied the effects of choking on the throat. They don't even take people to the ER to make things are alright.Consequently there is little known about. After choking I have a severe sore throat for at least a week and everything I try to swallow feels like another choking episode. I think this is physical damage to all those little parts of the throat.
HD surges and relents according to your health status. After choking you must be proactive and see a speech pathologist to make sure you are swallowing correctly with a hard swallow. When you start choking all the time it s painful and frightening. Chokking is much worse with a cold.
Choking is a indication to go to a nutritionist and a speech pathologist so you can eliminate the choking food.

In my case, choking has been eliminated by avoiding "dry" foods. Like BBQ meats.

And chicken breasts from cheap chicken farmers. Like those raised in SE USA (like Arkansas).

That said - I find that I can safely swallow dark meat from the same area - because it's more moist.

I've grown to prefer chicken thighs. They're not only moister - but much more tasty!

jl

My husband fell at work and hit his head on concrete. A few months later is when his HD symptoms appeared. Everyone including his Neurologist thought his problems were due to the head injury. It's hard to know if they would have appeared at that time if the injury had never happened.

Well, brain injury is brain injury, Judy!

Sometimes it's hard to tell whether it results from falling down - or a neurodegenerative disease!


jl



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2009 06:52PM by jl.

Yes, I know! My point was that he was fine before the fall! No HD symptoms.

And my point was that quite often symptoms will not be noticed - until some event (like an accident) calls notice to them.

And to point out that falling down does NOT cause HD! Inheritance of the defective gene at conception causes that.

If certain "symptoms" only showed themselves AFTER a fall - I'd venture to say that they were NOT "HD symptoms". Perhaps "concussion symptoms".

Many symptoms can appear similar.......


jl



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2009 08:54PM by jl.

I have read that traumatic injuries can cause HD symptoms to appear SOONER, than they normally would have. I know that a fall does not cause HD! I am very aware of concussion symptoms and some ARE similar to HD symptoms, but not all. Although I'm fairly new to HD, I have done a ton of research and have asked a lot of questions. I'm confident that I know the difference between the 2.

I don't know which parent he inherited it from, but regardless it would have been late onset. I know that the CAG increases, usually, with each generation, but I don't think his would be high enough to show symptoms 20 to 30 years earlier than the parent who passed it on, although I'm sure that you will tell me that I'm wrong, jL.

Well, I'm sorry but in my experience yOU ARE wrong.

We PHDs have been misdiagnosed for GENERATIONS by people who are absolutely sure that they know the "difference" between different ailments, that they know virtually nothing about!

If a familly history of HD is not known, they may well ascribe HD symptoms to everything from MS to Parkinson's.

If people DO know of a family history of HD - they may ascribe symptoms to HD that have nothing to DO with it, at all. PHDs can also suffer from a plethora of other conditions that NORMAL people can. Concussion. Depression. I think it's very important that diagnoses are correct.

Judy - I'm not aware of the publication you cite that claims that perhaps PHDs might exhibit symptoms sooner than might be expected due to some unrelated accident - but quite frankly, I have not seen or heard of that, in the long history of MY extended family! Nor in any of my studies on HD.

Maybe you could give me a link......

jl

I don't know what, if any, real data is out there, but I have observed progression of HD and Alzheimer's in my family drastically increase after a health event, 3x:

1) My husband's grandmother fell & broke her arm. Soon afterwards she began the first noticeable Alzheimer's symptoms.
2) My grandmother with HD fell & broke her hip. Sure, the fall could've been a RESULT of HD, but her HD symptoms surely showed up faster afterwards.
3) My mom has really gone downhill with HD since her heart attack 5 years ago.

Could be coincidence. Could be the HD & Alzheimers contributed to the falls. Could be that we were more in tune to these people's health after those events. But I believe the free radicals released during the injuries/heart attack had a negative neuro-protective affect, and allowed HD/Alzheimers to take a large step forward.

Could also be that ALL of the above is true to some degree - somewhat of a cyclical affect + some increased observation!

-not a doctor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Intersting post Sara. My wife recently fell, has a large bruise on her now and dementia seems a little worse. Mark.

Possibly relating to this discussion: Medical problems (outside of brain) that cause inflammation can affect those with brain diseases acutely and long term:

There are studies in Alzheimer's showing that inflammation caused by infection, trauma (inside or outside of the brain) or tissue damage due to low oxygen can increase the rate of disease progression, 2 to 4 times the former rate of progression: [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

And a detailed study in mice shows that there are both acute changes and longterm increase in rate of disease after tissue damage (in this case outside of brain)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18801476?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=6

lavonne that was very interesting ; it makes sence to me . db

make sense to me also. Thank You

Me too, you're not alone Judy

Well, inflamation can certainly cause some serious effects. For instance - I have chronic back problems I've found that right after a new back injury that taking something to keep down the inflamation speeds recovery of the BACK injury!

I guess I just question whether it's too likely for brain injuries to suffer or benefit that much due to happenings to the rest of the body. I mean, one of the biggest obstacles to treating HD with something introduced to the rest of the body was that "blood brain barrier".

jl

I guess my additional question question is words like "seems to have".

And "faster". And "worse".

"Faster" and "worse" than WHAT??

In my experience - HD does NOT have any set timeframe, or set of predictable symptoms.

Although CAG repeats are certainly an influence - any conjecture that they are in any way predictable, are simply false,

I'm livin' proof!

My Dad (who was hardly symptomatic at age 69) - was DEFINITELY late-onset!

His brother (who sprung from the same HD+ loins!) was long in a wheelchair and DEAD at 39!

My dad was a logger. During that career - he fell and ended up with a "lo-o-ong" chainsaw scar on his face. This happened when he was still quite young. So, did this admitted physical trauma hasten his HD symptoms?

It wouldn't seem so.........

jl

What with acute asthma sometimes, my neuro at McMaster says brain damage starts at 91 o2 saturation. That is much higher than the level you get through the ER at.They sell an oxymeter for pilots in the US. I'd like my own to avoid going to the ER

Faster than test subjects not injured jl... and for the rest of us who agree with results would say the symptoms worsened after injury or even psychological trauma than the person was before. It's very often been commented on. So the results for Lavonne's studies that acknowledge what people have noticed on their own is a fitting post.

Of course, the posts of the observations of the personal experiences of others is pertinent and valuable.

Just as mine are. After all, I have not only STUDIED HD a lot - I have LIVED it. As have countless generations of my family.......

And with all due respect - I have witnessed that comparisons between what one EXPECTS symptoms to be - and the ACTUALITY - are extremely unreliable.

Even MORE unreliable are comparisons between the symptomatic onset of HD between one PHD and another! Such "onset" is deplorably inconsistant.

jl



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2009 12:12PM by jl.