I think we have a desire for a similar outcome of our health care system, we just differ on what we're willing to give up to obtain it.

I DO want the best health care I can get in the US and I've been willing to work for it all my life. I don't want to just settle for "adequate" health care so that other's who haven't contributed to our nation in a productive way and who are able to do so, can have my taxes raised obscenely high so that they can also receive "adequate" or "inadeqate" health care.

I feel I have a moral obligation to the truly indigent/disabled, but not for every Tom/Dick & Harry that doesn't want to work for a living when/if jobs and education are available to them. We do need a better plan, yes!
I despise my tax dollars being used to fund a "no real plan"and me personally working my butt off so I can allow lawmakers or "lawbreakers" to dole out my hard earned tax dollars without even taking the time to "read the fine print" in laws and budgets they pass.

I was hopeful and inspired by the promises of our new President.

By God, I'm mad as hell at the whole idea of congress and our current President, who ran on the premise that he was "not going to pass a thing without reading the fine print" and "politics as usual was over" and before his 1st breathe was taken in office he does exactly what he said he wasn't going to do.

Give him a chance? President Obama is not off to a very good start and he - himself is to blame for his decisions. He tried with the disabled Veterans and trying to make it so the war-wounded would have to pay for their own care after being disabled in a fight they gave on behalf of their country. He tried to CUT their healthcare benefits and the people of this country said NO WAY! I was appauled at this action and even the thought of it. More of "lets take from those who serve and give to those who don't!!"

I'm for improving the health care system in the US but I'm not for it being done in the same careless/thoughtless fashion that I've seen displayed in the past couple of weeks. It's a blatant disregard for our country's best interest and I'm going to call them on it!

I'm all for Change!, but you've got to be kidding me, I can change my underwear with my neighbor but they are still going to stink!!

Unlike Bush - Obama HAS stepped up to the plate and accepted responsibility for his decisions, Lizzyann!

jl

So Eric - Bush only made one "expensive" decision, huh?

Would that be the one where he decided to pre-emptively attack a sovereign nation without cause - simply because he wanted to one-up his daddy?

jl

Eric said: "There is tons of spending that has nothing to do with the mess JL. Sorry, that's just fact. Building new rail lines etc really isn't Bush related. Nor are green projects. "

Quite true, Eric! Bush has always been in the back pockets of Big Oil. That is what has made us so vulnerable against Big Oil producers.

Perhaps you could explain the danger you see in high-speed rail lines, and green energy.

In the interest of energy-independence, wouldn't those be GOOD things?

jl

Marsha said: "So.....someone tell me what good a for profit system is when companies can insure you when you don't need them and dump you when you do."

I couldn't agree more, Marsha!

jl

jl, I would agree, Mr. President did accept responsbility for a failed attempt at trying to abandon the care of our disabled veteran's of service to this country. But admitting you didn't have the policital or US citizen's support to do a dirty service to our veteran's doesn't make the attempt smell any better.

Surely our vets could not suffer worse than they have under Bush.

Have you seen the pictures of Walter Reed Hospital?

jl

jl,

The condition of Walter Reed hospital is indeed due to decades of cutbacks and down-sizing of the military budget and funding. All the more reason to not totally take away the VA coverage and make veteran's start paying out of pocket for their service related injuries. And yes, they could suffer more. Much more indeed by turning a blind eye to thier needs. The American people did not and that's why the President back-peddled on removing their benefits. If the American people wouldn't have called him out on it, he would have gotten away with it.
My point isn't whether the war was justified. My point is right or wrong, who knows, but it really shouldn't matter in how we treat the veteran's that were ordered to serve for centuries under our military.

I didn't mention a thing about the former President in my post. He's not the point of MY discussion. He's a former with no current office.

I'm addressing my current Commander and Chief who has the ability and obligation to conduct himself in the manner in which he said HE WOULD and since he hasn't, I'm calling him out on it.

The bottom line is that everyone is entitled to health care, and it is the governments responsibility to see to it. For the life of me, I cannot understand why some are against that. Against people being able to access some form of health care when needed, would they sooner have people die? I really don't understand that way of thinking.

I know that it's expensive, but perhaps if governments spent less on arming themselves to the teeth things would be possible...take it easy...peter

I agree, Peter.

LA - of COURSE the previous president comes into any discussion or the current one! The current one has only been office a mere 50 days. One needs a frame of referrance.

Perhaps you could be a little more precise as to how our current president is worse on veteran benefits.

Specific bill numbers, and all that.

I'm quite frankly unaware of any.

jl



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2009 11:38PM by jl.

jl,

I posted specifically how the current President attempted to bring up a new plan in taking away disabled veteran's healthcare benefits. There is no bill number regarding that as he wasn't able to move on with it after the public outcry. As it should have been, stopped dead in it's tracks. I'm satisfied with that outcome on the subject ......so far.

I posted MY dissatisfaction with the current administration's attempt at taking away well deserved healthcare coverage to those who have served this country.

I hope in the future the current adminstration takes constructive action on the subject that does not take away from the deserving in an attempt to give to those who do nothing, at their own choice, and are not disabled/indigent. There's got to be a better way in my opinion.

I would like to see a better plan for affordable health coverage for all. I also see the Cobra option as an unrealistic option for those that are now unemployed. It does not fit the needs for those that it was supposidly intended to benefit.

Respectfully, I read the previous postings on this message listing and I gave MY viewpoint.

I try to take into consideration the entire posting someone has made and their viewpoint on the subject. It doesn't mean I have to agree with everyone.

I don't find the common "tit-for-tat type of posting" that I often view on some of the message subjects "my cup of tea".
I don't see the need for myself to pick apart piece by piece someone else's post in an attempt to negate their entire viewpoint.

I merely posted my interpretation of some current events that I was not happy with in DC regarding some current adminstrations choices on removing healthcare benfits for a well deserving group.

One of friends son's is a doctor.He's the only one whose working contract includes four trips home to his mother and 4 trips to his mother-in-law. His entire class of doctors take training in Canada for much less money then take off for residencies in the US and live there.
The best and the brightest throughout school also got scholarships Interestingly he is a neurological radiologist.and working in Maine.
When socialized medicine came through in Canada it covered everything in a ward hospital bed, you paid yourself for semi private and private.
Only full time middle class people have benefits with the job.
People without an education not only have no benefits, they are often employed only as long as benefits don't have to be provided then fired.
This is more evident in American owned companies who get the idea that because we have socialized medicine it does not cost anything to live. The editor of my book who lives in Washington and had a degree from Vassar said this to me all the time.
Most women end up with part time work, often two jobs, lower pay and no benefits. My daughters teeth are falling out of her head but as a secuiity guard she gets no benefits, and the kids go to the dentist first. My son the disabled one also has had many jobs witho9ut benefits. He is last hired and first fired.This is why I have him on Disability

My sisters cancer care was outpatient so she had to pay for the drugs herself and get a medical deduction on income tax a year later. Only rich people can afford to be sick here. They spend more and more money on hospitals and nobody seems to get in them. We also have far too many bed ridden people taking up nursing care for years and years. The immigrants arrived and have many babies, none of which were anticipated by medicare. THe OB wards are so full they send some people to US maternity beds. 24 hour turn around on maternity beds.

Medicare is federally directed but applied provincially so Barb and I have completely diferent systems of medicine.
Dad told me that for every dollar he earned the AMerican doctor got $10. This has not changed

OK, LizzyAnn - maybe I misread your posts.

I thought you were stating FACTS not OPINION.

JL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2009 09:28AM by jl.

LizzyAnn further said "Give him a chance? President Obama is not off to a very good start and he - himself is to blame for his decisions. He tried with the disabled Veterans and trying to make it so the war-wounded would have to pay for their own care after being disabled in a fight they gave on behalf of their country. He tried to CUT their healthcare benefits and the people of this country said NO WAY! I was appauled at this action and even the thought of it. More of "lets take from those who serve and give to those who don't!!"

I guess I'm a little less sure of my qualifications to judge who is "deserving" or not. I quite frankly would not want ANYONE in need of medical care to be turned away.....


And: "I'm for improving the health care system in the US but I'm not for it being done in the same careless/thoughtless fashion that I've seen displayed in the past couple of weeks. It's a blatant disregard for our country's best interest and I'm going to call them on it! "

Ah!!! So you consider "a couple of weeks" to be giving the man "a break"? Even though he's dealing with problems which have accrued over 8 years???

I have to "respectfully" say that I DON'T consider that at all reasonable!

Sorry!

jl



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2009 12:12PM by jl.

jl,

not quite sure why you only pickout the quotes you FEEL serve YOUR purpose against my opinion.

The quote actually about "deserving" is as follows:
I hope in the future the current adminstration takes constructive action on the subject that does not take away from the deserving in an attempt to give to those who do nothing, at their own choice, and are not disabled/indigent. There's got to be a better way in my opinion.
Notice the "who do nothing,at their own choice" , at their own choice, at their own choice.....and yes, I do believe disabled veteran's are deserving.


And:"I'm for improving the health care system in the US but I'm not for it being done in the same careless/thoughtless fashion that I've seen displayed in the past couple of weeks. It's a blatant disregard for our country's best interest and I'm going to call them on it! "

I was referring to how congress and the current President have passed the bailout and then claimed "foul" stating they really didn't read the fine print. I don't want to see that sort of thing happen with a proposed health plan. They need to read the fine print! You can't change the game rules after the game started and claim "foul".

I've clarified what I feel you misrepresented! I'm not going to "bite at the bait" anymore.

Respectfully, LizzieAnn

Fine. It's certainly possible for intelligent persons to have differing opinions.

You just said what you said with such certitude that I thought you must have some independent and non-partisan DOCUMENTS to back up your opinions.

I was worried that maybe there was something you know that I don't. Since I'm a very curious person - I attempted to determine that.

Since you're not able to provide that backup - maybe, as suggested, we should just agree to disagree.

That's cool!

jl



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2009 10:49AM by jl.

Peter said: "The bottom line is that everyone is entitled to health care, and it is the governments responsibility to see to it. For the life of me, I cannot understand why some are against that. Against people being able to access some form of health care when needed, would they sooner have people die? I really don't understand that way of thinking. "

Peter - that's my "bottom line", as well!

jl



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2009 10:54AM by jl.

LA further said: "not quite sure why you only pickout the quotes you FEEL serve YOUR purpose against my opinion. "

Well, uh - because they were the statements of yours that I had questions about!

And to be fair - they WERE your statements!

jl

Good comments from everyone above. Thx for your comments Dusty--very interesting. I think everyone understands the need for health care reform and Marsha should have alternatives to COBRA. I think we can fix a lot of the deficiencies without creating a huge bureaucracy. Right now, it looks as if they are just throwing money at everything with no sensible plan.

We pay a huge amount by not having tort reform--lawsuits are out of control. For example, I tried to buy a special seat to help get my wife out of the car. The seat costs $11,000 new. I saw a used one for $3,000, but no one will install it because of liability issues.

I, personally, would like to consider de-linking health insurance from employment but having insurance companies offering various plans to people on a competitive group plan basis--you choose the plan you want. I would make some type of insurance mandatory.

But Hillary care or look-alike govt. control alternatives, no way.

The problem, Dave, is that private insurance does not cover the bulk of our population.......

I would hope that Marsha were not faced with the termination of her health insurance under COBRA.

I would certainly hope that those who cannot AFFORD insurance under COBRA be able to do so.

What is the plan you're suggesting? .............


jl



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2009 05:13PM by jl.