Considering all the research about the delays in onset of mice when fasting, has anyone with Huntington's done any of the 5-day fasting programs. I am seriously considering starting a fast soon, and I wanted to know if anyone has experience or knows of anyone doing such programs.

Thanks.

AR

'Carpe Diem'

What would that involve?

What would it involve and what would it solve????

DCB
*Living for today*

I would build up to 5 days but the fasting program is similar to this one

[www.lemondetox.com]

In essence you eat nothing but this lemon / maple syrup concoction for 5 days.

My uncle has been studying health for 20 years (although not in the traditional sense), has been suggesting this.

When you google Huntington's and fasting you get 3 pages of research about the effects of mice and fasting, I thought Why not?

It is certainly a-non- traditional approach. Very California. All about removing all the evil toxins from the body.

But as a PHD, I figure WTF do I have to lose.

He has vision of me being on Oprah as the first person to beat HD without any medicine. I think that is a bit extreme. But I'll try anything that will keep the symptoms from getting worse

AR

'Carpe Diem'

I would never do a 5 day fast myself, and not on syrup If you look at anti-aging sites, the lower your weight, the greater the long-levity. But if you look specifically at the hd fasting mice, i don't believe, if i remember, that they fasted every day, i believe they fasted every other day, and this caused two benefits, the weight loss took away the hd symptoms, but also fasting every other day i think produced a heat-shock response...maybe marsha knows, but i'm wondering if it's just the fasting and the weight loss, or if it was done every other day that caused the improvement, i'm not sure. I havent read any of the hd fasting mice articles lately, i might later, but i'm trying to remember, was it all done as an every other day fast, or did some of the mice just go on a plain low calorie diet every day? Do you know Marsha?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2008 11:26PM by Barb.

Here is some more information regarding intermittent fasting and the results of work with mice appear more encouraging than the results from calorie restriction (according to the wikipedia enty below). Perhaps this is because the body becomes stronger on a cellular level (as a reaction to the stress of eating only intermittently) without being deprived of calories (mice were allowed to eat as much as they wanted every other day):

[en.wikipedia.org]

Another way to approach intermittent fasting is to eat every day, as much as you like (hopefully healthy, HD friendly foods), but only within a four hour window. You then have to fast for 20 hours until your next eating window. You might check out some alternate strategies like this so you are not calorie-deprived.

David

Exactly. Intermittent fasting was helpful to the HD mice. It's not the fasting itself that is helpful but rather the cellular stress responses it stimulates. On the other hand, we also have to keep in mind that Phds are dealing with reduced cellular energy so I would be very reluctant to have a loved one of mine fast for five days. And given that glucose metabolism seems to be a problem too, there's no way I'd be giving them a maple sugar concoction for five days either -- that's not fasting.

Also, when you are looking at the research literature, remember that most of the treatments for the HD mice start very early, either before they are symptomatic or just afterwards. So even if we could definitely extrapolate from mice to humans (and we won't know that something which helps a mouse will help a human being until we have clinical trials), that still wouldn't mean that a particular treatment would work or even be helpful later in the disease. Once someone is struggling to keep their weight up, it doesn't make sense for them to be fasting.

The diet AR mentions does not strike me as a calorie restriction diet since sugar in the form of tree syrup is still consumed. It is more a fat and protein restriction diet. As discussed previously on this forum [www.hdac.org], recent research suggests that protein restriction might be beneficial in hd.

myself I would talk to my dr. first before starting anything like this on my husband

On a personal note on this idea, my wife followed a rather strict diet during her lifetime. Not restrictive like this is but strict. She maintained a rather slim 110lb-115lb weight almost all of her adult life. When symptoms appeared she went down to 89lbs and couldn't recognize she was at a dangerous, unhealthy weight and insisted on strictly dieting still. Had it not been for hospitalization for another issue and insistence on high calorie foods she was on a fast track to having needed a feeding tube. Depending on one's mental state as a pHD, I wouldn't want to start something that could backfire so badly. Early reasonable thoughts can turn into unreasonable obsessive behavior from time to time. That can be food or feeling medications are always bad, or any other number of things. Unfortunately you need to plan for the worst sometimes. Your thinking is quite clear and reasonable now... that is clear enough. Now is the time to imprint your best thinking for you to follow later should it be necessary. This one could turn really bad for you and those who care about you later on.

I would probably die with fasting. I cope with HD only with very careful nutrition. When my hunger alarm really goes off I cannot rationalize processes even to putting cheese whiz on bread, I get a headache and I basically go blind. This most recently happened this week in the GP office at 12.17 and the Ensure was in the car, so I got in the elevator and went out to the car. There wasn't any Ensure left so I drank a cranberry cocktail which had 114 calories.114 caolries allowd me to go back up and announce there wasn't any Ensure. Without those 114 calories I would have already passed out. This time Ross came down and got the new box out which was hidden somewhere and gaave me the can. so lunch was 464 calories. We know I have increased adrenals for no reason except probably HD, but nobody knows anything about it, the mice die with 37% increased adrenals.

I don't beleive in fasting any way. It comes from a alternative medical treatment. My daughter who copes with anorexia went to the student health at McGill and got a Aruvian (sp?) doctor whose hopefully learning more beffore she was allowed to practise. She told my daughter to fast for 6 days to get rid of gas. My daughter followed her advice. Fortunatly she phoned me before passing out and she ate.
Dusty

BJ, Eric, and Dusty have made some additional good points. As BJ says, It is definitely important to talk your doctor about fasting or any other change in health habits. And Eric is right about how important it is to start as we mean to go on with HD. A 'habit' of fasting could turn dangerous when the individual doesn't realize that his or her needs have changed. And finally, with the prevalence of anorexia in young people these days, we don't want to reinforce eating patterns that could cause it in young at risk people.

Calories are important but we need to pay attention to what type of calories! Empty calories which is what I believe you'd be getting from the syrup concoction with zero protein and empty carbs! YIKES no way. Call your HD dr's first please! This sounds like a dangerous fad to me please research this more than their own web site ! Pat



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2008 03:38PM by mrspatwolf.

I am weighing my options -

I certainly haven't decided -

Problem is my doctor knows nothing about HD.

I have been seeing a nutritionist about eat and the disease and I will ask him.

Again the weight loss is an issue and certainly not the reasons for doing this.

But I am relatively in the earlier stages and my appetite and weight have stablized after an initial 10 lb loss. It is obviously not something I will undertake lightly

AR

'Carpe Diem'

Don't you have access to a neurologist, Andy?

If so, I'd definitely seek the advice of him/her, rather than a nutritionist.

Seriously.

"sieze the day"...........jl

Hi AR,

I am not a doctor but have actually tried this lemonade fast. Its not for the faint of heart and doesn't always yeild the promising results as described online. However, you definitely feel better at the end of it.

Cleansing is useful to assist with removing the toxins over years of build up and acutually needs to be addressed carefully and staged. If you haven't tried this I would suggest a 2 day fast with water and soft fruit like a bannana if you get hungry. If you drink caffeine I suggest you cut way back before you start to avoid the tremdous migraines associated with the withdrawals.

The cost for Grade B syrup is about 20-30$ for organic at whole foods for 16oz you will need 2 or 3 of these to complete the 10-12 day fast. Good luck the hardest is the first 72 hrs and adjusting to gulping the cayanne pepper drink at the rate of a gallon a day. Surprisingly you get used to the tasted rather quick. What you don't get used to is the salt water flushes...

My longest is 7 days and I've attempted it 3 times.

Good luck..

LP

I read about the fasting. It's definitely not for me. I'm trying to gain weight.

Thanks LP - That is very helpful.

I was going to build up with one day - then 2 then hopefully 5. Your suggestions are helpful. I don't drink coffee, and not much soda so hopefully the caffine won't be too much trouble.

AR

'Carpe Diem'