We have to be honest with each other . We have to be encouraging . We sometimes have to give opinions ; when asked , that may be different than many of the other posters on the forum . It is my personal belief that you can be honest in any situation in life , as long as you guide your words with the intent of being helpful . There are many posts in which peoples life choices are far different than mine , and mine theirs . But , their thoughts and life choices actually help me have a broader understanding of others . Life is not only about how I feel , it is about how you all feel , as well as myself . Like all diseases HD has much that makes us sad and frustrated . Like other diseases in a family , it is complicated with good and bad emotions all bundled up together . I personally do not want any of you to hold back advice if I ask for it . I am strong enough to pick out what I need and want . Really that is why this forum is so good . It gives us insight on how others have dealt with HD in their lives . I want to thank all of you , for sharing your feelings and thoughts . You have helped me greatly . But , I do not want anyone to feel that they have to hold back their opinions , just because it might hurt me . Say what ever you want to me , just say it with compassion . All of my best. db

Couldn't have said it better, db!

I agree with both of you!

As my mother used to say..."honesty without compassion is brutality"...

It is my opinion that the only thing we can bring here is ourselves.

I think that if someone met me in person there is a really good chance that someone might find me harsh. I think that is because I feel like "dancing around the truth of a matter" is a waste of time and I have always felt my time is very precious.

What you hear is what you get. It does not mean that I do not have compassion, its just that I don't always have time to "dance". It is a public forum and if I don't agree or am offended by someone I just skip over it (everyone's entitled to their opinion after all) unless I feel that there is something I can learn from it, then I ask questions.

It's just like the real world, we all don't have to agree, but we do need to learn from each other.

Tracie your certainly not alone in your thoughts , so many people feel the same way as you do . Yet , I am sure your like me and find that you want life enjoyable , calm , joyous , is that what you foster if you shoot from the hip; tell it like it is ; brutally honest ; I have found people who live their life that way are constantly upset with someone , or they have upset someone . I find it does not take any less time to be honest with tact as honest with out tact . Even as I am posting I am trying to be tactful in my post to you , I am responding because I wonder have you tried being tactful and honest for a long period of time and it has not worked ? I would never want to hurt your feelings , that desire is foreign to me . I think so much more can be accomplished on this forum and in life when you treat people as precious , worthy of our best conduct towards them . Maybe I misunderstood your reasoning . It is so hard to get what the other person is saying when your not face to face . Anyways , what is your thoughts ? Be gentle with me db

I agree totally with Tracie on this one!

Actually, db - it DOES take a lot more time to try to exercise tact. I HAVE tried to be tactful and honest for a long period of time, and it has NOT worked!

I've worked for about 40 years in what is predominantly a "man's world". In other words, I have been forced to survive in a world where I don't make the rules. I often don't even UNDERSTAND the rules! As a result, I've been overlooked, ignored, and assumed to be conniving and manipulative, just because I'm a woman. I AM NEITHER.

After many years of my thoughts and ideas being ignored, I finally had to tell myself, "You gotta adopt yourself a whole new style, girl! This one ain't working!"

So I started by not letting the guys (everyone but me) just "over-talk" me in meetings. I would persist until my views were heard. And got (to my surprise) increasing (albeit sometimes grudging!) respect for my views. People came to realize that I DID have something worth saying, after all!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2007 02:28PM by JL.

I still always strive to be honest. I may not tell someone if I thought they had an ugly child (that's the "tact" part! ) But aside from that - you can pretty much depend on honesty from me!

While I may share my personal experiences of working in a predominently male environment - I try real hard not to make "generalizations". Most especially those based on gender bias (male, in this case) - as opposed to personal experience.

Believe me, I've experienced enough gender bias not to want to use it on anyone else!

Most of my friends are male - so I quite honestly have no bias. I value their views. I value their friendship.

But no matter how close the relationship, I refrain from making jokes about baldness - or failure to ask for instructions - or failure to put the toilet seat down!

But how can one possibly fail to occasionally offend, if one IS honest? I quite frankly don't know how!

Since one is never certain about who will be offended by what - you would have to cease communicating altogether, in order to avoid that!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2007 02:11PM by JL.

JL you make some good points , I can see where your coming from . I am going to have to mull this over . Oh dear could I be wrooooooooonnnng . db

I once worked in a dysfunctional environment that was permeated with rumor and maneuvering. The people in my own department were a cohesive team of friendly people but occasionally the atmosphere would get to us too. Someone came up with the phrase "Assume goodwill" and we used that whenever things got tense in our group.

I wonder if we should adopt it here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2007 02:15PM by Marsha.

we are going to need a new smiley for that Marsha .

i'm honest too... in my younger days, i could be BRUTALLY honest, and i didnt care, cause i was young and arrogant...
but time, and a life that was more brutal than i am, taught me to temper my honesty, with sensitivity...
its wonderful not to be so self absorbed any more, i can see better when i see all points of view.

its liberating to be nice once in a while... although like any good woman, i can be a b----.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2007 07:37PM by skmf.

The opposite was true of me, skmf. When I was young, I was humble to a fault.

I had to overcome that to some degree, in the interest of self-survival.

I have ALWAYS been able to see other points of view - sometimes to the extent of losing sight of MINE!

I've never been "self-absorbed" - in fact, I was so "self-effacing" that I was damaging myself, in terms of holding my own with (and gaining the respect of) others.

And I have ALWAYS been more brutally honest with myself than with others!

You can believe that or not, but it's true!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2007 12:18AM by JL.

JL, you always make me smile

I also was a very quiet gal until I found myself a woman among men at work, then I found the same thing as JL: talk quietly and you might as well just be talking to yourself.

My circle of friends in my personal world is small, and we all understand our love for each other, so tact is not often used as long as all is said with love.

db, that said, I really am here to learn from everyone. And I do try to do that as respectfully as I can and still make my point.

Well Jl, im gonna quote you lol:

Jl said, "But no matter how close the relationship, I refrain from making jokes about baldness - or failure to ask for instructions - or failure to put the toilet seat down!"

Too funny Jl! lol Now you've got me going, cus you reminded me of a story. First 5 years we were married, i could not believe the toilet seat thing! Guess my dad was trained good and wasnt i problem that i was accustomed too! lol Well, the way i figure is this, a guy has to get his uhmm hands dirty to go to the bathroom, but a woman doesnt have to lol lol, soooo, why should i have to get my hands dirty putting the seat down, lol, when as a woman, we dont do things a guys way lol lol, so if he has to get his hands dirty anyways lol, then just do the darn se3at lol lol lol. So anyways, i raved and nagged at dan bout this for 5 years, was sooooo maddening! And our youngest one was just 3 at the time, and i kept saying, dan, one of these times she's gonna not see that seat up, and she's gonna land in the toilet bowl!!! Did he believe me????? Noooooo, of course not! lol lol lol So guess what happens, one night little Jen goes running into the bathroom, and suddenly we hear the most blood curdling scream coming from the bathroom! lol lol lol Yep, she landed in the toilet bowl!!! And when i say landed, i mean landed, right up to her waist! Screamingy daddy daddy help me!!!!! lol lol lol Think in the next 26 years of marriage he has ever left the toilet seat up again???? NOPE!!! LOL LOL LOL

As for asking directions jl, i have given up saying to dan in the stores, just ask someone where it is that your looking for. We used to have world war 3 over that all the time. Soo, guess what, i go find someone, and cus my memory, i can never remember what hes looking for, i find someone and say, can you come here, my husband needs help lol lol lol So they come and say to dan how can we help you, and he says, oh im just looking, i say DAN! Tell him what your looking for! And then he does! lol And he always thanks me after for getting the answer so quick for him lol lol lol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2007 01:56AM by Barb.

Exactly, Tracie!

My circle of friends is pretty capable of knowing the difference between attacking the IDEA and attacking the PERSON.

And also pretty aware that where it might be acceptable to make jokes at your own expense - and for your friends to laugh at them. One should be very cautious about not INITIATING jokes about others, unless one has been given clear indicators that it's OK to do so, without causing hurt.

Every person has his or her own areas of sensitivity. Given my life experiences, a big area of sensitivity to me is being treated with condescension.

Or being treated like I'm stupid. Well - actually few people who know me very well treat me like I'm stupid!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2007 11:57AM by JL.

Great story, Barb!

Most of my male friends have been platonic. One funny thing that I've noticed is that platonic friends are less sensitive to some things than "significant others".

There was one platonic friend that I worked with and had lunch with every week. We'd grown so comfortable with each other (and thought so much alike) - that virtually ANY conversation was safe ground!

But some conditioning is hard to totally overcome! During one lunch, I was venting my frustration with a work situation. He was venting over a hired home-upgrade.

I was increasingly concerned at uncharacteristic "testy" vibes from him! I finally broke down and said, "C - it sure seems to me like you're upset with me. If so - why?"

He admitted that it was because I was griping about my work situation, and our mutual bosses. Since I knew HE despised those bosses, as well - I was quite baffled.

He admitted that he felt I wanted him to defend me to those bosses. "What would give you that idea? Did I ask for that?", I asked. "Well, no, he admitted - but why else would you be bringing it up?" "Because I thought we were friends, and I could talk to you about stuff going on in my life!", I answered. He gave some thought to that and said, "We ARE friends".

I said, "C - of all people, you KNOw that I'm not shy about asking about something from you - did I EVER ask you to defend me?"

He admitted that I had not, and that he had just assumed it.

It turned out that in his own on-going experience with the house repairs, his retired wife was refusing to make decisions he'd totally abdicated to her - and then would jump all over him, no matter what decision he made. And she was also jumping all over him for not "defending" her on issues, where he was not even aware that she had issues!!! He was supposed to read her mind.

I reminded C that just as I don't consider mind-reading to be a part of my Job Description - neither do I expect it of anyone else. Realizing the truth of that, everything was cool, from then on. We went back to bi-ing and moaning about life, without fear of misunderstanding.

I guess my point here - if indeed I had one - is that successful communication can be a very tricky and time-consuming effort. Even amongst the best of friends.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2007 11:45AM by JL.

you know j,

i never consider your comments brutal, i consider you opinionated, but who here is not?
but the thing i noticed about you from the beginning, is that you temper all your comments with humor, and that is a wonderful way of being 'nice'...
i enjoy your humor! and it shows you are sensitive... you cant deny it.