What an interesting thread. It starts off about the veto of a bill and it soon turned into a Bush Bash over additional issues, heck we even got some name calling in. I certainly don't agree with much of what Bush does anymore, but I do have an appreciation of the fact that I was not surprised by the veto. He does not take an opinion poll like his predecessor did before announcing every decision. Regarding asking candidates prior to election what their views are, good luck with that. They ALL will tell you what they think will get them elected as evidenced by the many flip flops on all sides. And I do think "I get it" even though I may not agree with some of you. Anyway, opinions are like something else we each have, so I thought I would share mine.
Regards,
Dave H

I agree, Steve - but I have to say that the credibility of one's sources is always subject to question. I blast Bush's credibility not on the basis of oppinion - but on the basis of established fact.

Eric is quite right that stem-cell treatment cannot CURE HD or Parkinson's or Alzheimer's, per se.

It can only hope to regenerate destroyed brain cells. Slow down the degeneration, or hopefully halt it.

Isn't that a worthy cause? Eric seems not to think so.

I disagree.

Is it preferable to discard embryos (in the trash or the incinerator) - than to use them for scientific research?

Where's the "ethics" or "morality" in that!!!

Am I missing something here?

Or are the people who think that making use of embryos which would otherwise be destroyed is a question of "ethics" "missing" some basic facts?

This argument simply baffles me. And I'm not easily baffled!

I have to disagree with the term "bashing", Dave.

"Bashing" implies that the charges are unfair. Either untrue or irrelevant.

I considered the plethora of posts on this site "bashing" Clinton for lying about consensual sex to be irrelevant in the extreme!

I consider Bush's obstruction of stem-cell research to be ENTIRELY relevant!

Wow, I had no idea what a debate my little post would lead to. What a terrific conversation! Thanks to all for your input. (I love the HDAC!)

Stem Cells might not lead to a cure, but if they can repair damage in the brain, that?s pretty darn great! We could get into a whole discussion again about ?what is a cure?? and I?m not saying that repairing brain cells is a cure. But repairing brain cells & giving us a little more time before HD hits would be fantastic!

Yes, there is private funding for stem cell research, and even some public here in CA! I just hate to see Bush turn down more funding (and therefore more research) because of his personal beliefs.

The HD researchers in my area have mentioned that stem cells are promising and researching them would be very worthwhile.

Embryos that are going to be discarded anyway are perfect candidates for research. I am all for embryo adoption, but my gene-positive embryos were not candidates for adoption. They would have been discarded if I hadn?t donated them to HD research. Why shouldn?t they be supported by federal funding for that research?

Stacy

p.s. Yes you can write to the White House, although I?m sure Bush never sees it. But maybe if enough people do so, we can have a voice. Here?s the email:
comments@whitehouse.gov
vice_president@whitehouse.gov



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2007 02:56PM by Stacy.

I would not want a "stem cell cure" if there were one, i don't believe in taking one life to save another. Just my personal opinion. I know that most people don't like Bush around here, but I would vote for him again.
Melissa

We're not talking about "taking one life to save another", Melissa.

We're talking about using embryos for research which would otherwise be destroyed.

Sorry to disagree Steve but just because we don't know what the slope is doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I think whenever you are playing God with Life and Death there is a slope.

Think about before test tube babies, was anyone discussing what happened to the unused, unwanted, unneeded embroyo's? We know have women who take medicines to control every part of there cycle but don't control how many eggs they are releasing, so when they wind up pregnant with oodles of babies they just discard the ones they don't use. We think it is alright because we can control life and death. We have men and women who anonomously donate eggs and sperms for strangers to hatch, we are loosing our lineage. It is very likely that one of our kids could meet, date and marry a half sib or cousin. But that is ok because we can control life and death.

Everytime we mess with life and death we are loosing a little bit of our humanity. We don't know what stem cells will bring.

I am all for using what is out but boy I wish it weren't there, but as we get more and more advanced there is just going to be more that we feel we can discard.

Sometimes a Thread comes along that I have to really contemplate before giving my 2 cents well gee, in the past few weeks there have been 2 one on the assisted suicide and now this one-----
First of all, I have to smile, I am not a religious person by no means, was brought up by a methodist minister, my brohter is also in the methodist ministry so been around it for some time---the statement Jimmy made brought a chuckle to my face---the WWJD bracelets, and I hve to agree, If there is a Jesus and he came back today and noticed there was technology available to find a cure or help for those suffering and having great loss, I would have to say his comment might be ------"My Father assisted in giving the researches the knowledge to locate this information, why are others standing in their way?------
Then, I also, like Marsha, have had dealings w/several researchers in Iowa and New York City---every one I have delt w/is frustrated with what is happening--they want to move on in certian areas and can not because of current legistlation.
I do not know the extent that stem cell research would really play in HD, other than repairing damage done. But maybe,just maybe-there is a friend or family member out there suffering or will suffer from something else, that stem cell research can help.

My 2 cents worth is this: The researchers have come across this information that may help millions suffering-not just HD related issues--lets give them the backing to help us, our families and our friends--the embryos being discussed were never intended to become full term children, they were going to be thrown in the trash {I know, sounds harsh-would you rather me say in the dumpster} why not let the researchers use them to help find cures for those who are suffering.

DCB

I am very disappointed in Bush on his stem cell stance.

Years ago there was a reason there was a division of "church and state" and I do not think he should have such a strong hand in opposing what so many think many help millions of people. He is a politician, not a scientist and I think for him to be able to veto an item such as this is a power he should not have.

He correlates it with a religious belief and so church and state should not mix. He is a president, not a scientist or anyone in the medical field. I hope soon there are enough votes for this that his veto can be overturned.

Meanwhile, there are other countries, whose leadership is moving forward on this issue and stem cell research is being done in those countries. Hopefully, we will catch up with these other countries, as far as their stem cell research and get on board where we should be!

Since there is not a cure for HD we do not know if stem cell can or cannot be that cure but until then we need to research all avenues.

I am not for abortion, however, these cells are just tossed. What a shame. I equate this to organ donation somewhat. What a shame if people did not donate organs so that others might live or have a better life.

MRO said:

"I am all for using what is out but boy I wish it weren't there, but I am all for using what is out but boy I wish it weren't there, but I am all for using what is out but boy I wish it weren't there, but as we get more and more advanced there is just going to be more that we feel we can discard.

I prefer to see it as, "as we get more and more advanced there is just going to be more that we feel we can use for the benefit of mankind."

ok, to the 25% who approve of him- If we cannot "BASH BUSH", you shouldn't be allowed to say that he has MORALS.

As I pointed out earlier - this is not an appropriate forum for venting your personal feelings about our President. If you cannot limit your post to the context of the thread then the post will be deleted.

I apologize in advance for this, but this board is to be HD family-friendly regardless of one's politics or religion.

Thanks,
Steve

Steve,
I appreciate your oversight of this board. I did make the observation that the thread had seemed to head toward a Bush Bash, which may have increased the passions of a few, as evidenced by the number of repeat posts. Please know that was not my intention. In my mid years(55) I have been blessed with two things; Not feeling the need to have the last word, And not feeling that it is my job to correct everyone that I disagee with. Those two things have served me well and brought about a real peace in my own life. Anyway, I thank you for the job you do here. Although I rarely post, this has become a special place for me as I usually check in daily to see what is going on.
Kindest Regards,
Dave H

Thanks Steve that makes talking topic much easier.

Marsha would no doubt remember this better than I do. A few years ago when the stem cell issue was being debated, there was a strong push to gather information from our group on the Lighthouse. I believe it was an Aid to senator Barbara Boxer (D-Calif) whom we were in good contact with and supplied information on the Horrors of HD that was Voluntarily Submitted for the use in the Debate,I have often wondered why the ball was apparently dropped on this method of presenting the facts from real families in favor of a less powerful presentation of pure statistics to the debate that was recently Vetoed by "Quoting Harry Potter" "He Who Shall Not Be Named"..

Ron C.

Edit: I didn't understand Steve had posted concerning a completely off topic post that is now deleted... I thought it was concerning those on the board now... never mind...lol.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2007 10:30AM by Eric.

I dont see any reason not to discuss the politics or religion behind this subject either, because it is part of the subject. However, I think the reason steve said this, is because during the night, i noticed a really hateful post, that had nothing to do with the subject or hd, and the person just kept repeating over and over how much they hated bush, and so i think steve removed that post, and that is why he said what he did i think. To keep the discussion a discussion, with no bashing i think , i think that would be reasonable.

Y'all got it nailed. No offense taken.

Steve

My guess is that with Bush, it is more what he believes, than anything else--not to please anyone. And it does not have to make sense to us if he has a certain belief and sticks to it. He is the one who has to sleep at night after he makes a decision. I'd guess that a majority of Americans, including many of his supporters, disagree with him on the stem cell issue.

I appreciate Eric's rational discussion of stem cell research--without calling anyone an idiot. I think that some people (including some on this forum) had the inaccurate impression that stem cell research was the key to a cure for HD--and Bush was holding everything up.

Take the immigration issue. Bush is getting hammered by his own supporters, yet he sounds like a Democrat on immigration issues. He thinks the current bill is the right thing to do regardless of the views of his core supporters.

A majority of people disagree with him on the war, and he still has not changed.

I do not see him waking up to check the polls before he does something. And despite frustrations with him, I heard that his approval ratings are higher than the new Democratically-controlled Senate (collectively) and of Harry Reed in particular.

What about the stem cell research that has been used in other countries? Before becoming computer literate & finding this site earlier this year, I had no knowledge of hd research other than, being told that stem cell research was being tested. (I even offered my daughter, age 15 to be used in the trial & was told she had to be 18...when she was 18, we wrote again asking her to be taken onto the trials & was told they had already chosen the people they needed.)
Any way, a few years later I watched a t.v documentary where stem cells were used & the t.v crew followed the lives of 3 different people.
It seemed to be fairly successful & you could see the change, especially in one particular French man. His 'dance' movements were very noticeably better.
I have often wondered what was the out come of it all. Does anyone know any thing about this? Isn't there proof of stem cell research that has been tested in other countries & whether or not, it has been successful?